 We are anglers, and that’s not angling!
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5,044 views
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In reply to Post #11
Is just dumping 3 or 4 lines out, setting the alarms, wandering 100 yards up the bank to someone’s social marquee (proper carp tho, ‘cos it’s in camo, innit!) with a remote receiver, for a burger and a beer, classed as real, skilled fishing?
And yet that seems not to upset most people (?).
But how would that be viewed by real skilled anglers from 30-40 years ago….🤔
30 or 40 years ago the really skilled anglers would've been in the Horse and Barge rather than a marquee....
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In reply to Post #52
But baitboat uses can interfere, albeit indirectly. If they continue to bait inaccessible areas then that's where the fish will hold up, inaccessible to those that don't want to use a boat.
I fished Lac Desire a few years ago and on arrival and throughout the week the bailiff said do not cast it will scare the fish.
My thoughts were then ban baitboats so that the fish get accustomed to casting, just like they do on lakes where boats are not allowed.
I've seen some great casters with real skills, I've marvelled at what I've seen, it'll be a shame if all lakes allow boats and make these anglers obsolete.
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In reply to Post #52
Nice balanced post mate 👍
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Fish caught with a bait boat or the aid of a drone don't count, simple as that. It's cheating and they should be banned from all waters. This includes your celebrity anglers that have caught fish using an electric boat toy, don't count....sorry.
If you can't cast - learn how to.
As for Laney, I've seen him using bait boats on waters so not sure what he is banging on about "do what I say, don't do what I do"....
Have a nice day,
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I tend to take a live and let live approach to technology in fishing. Do the majority of us non-full timers not fish as a hobby for our own gratification anyway.
Life's too short to be offended by how people choose to apply their bait/rigs.
So long as boat, camera, sonar users do not interfere with other anglers outside of their boundaries and those anglers are satisfied with how they went about capturing that carp then I don't see an issue with it (providing its done safely and the carp are looked after).
The waters I fish do not allow them and that suits my angling, but I have fished waters that do allow them and I personally have chosen not to - because personally I felt more of an achievement catching fish without some of the tech available.
That doesn't mean I felt the need to discredit those choosing to use it. It is a pastime that we're all lucky enough to experience in our own way after all.
Most, if not all waters are going to have muppets who do not respect the fish or fellow anglers and users of the spod rod, bait boat, throwing stick or others means are still going to ruin the experience for others through choice or lack of self-awareness regardless.
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In reply to Post #49
Not really as I only use 10’rods and casting that far would be difficult for me and it did its purpose for me last month I had 3 to 20lb including a grass carp that doesn’t come out very often,did the job I wanted it to do so I’m happy don’t care what anyone else thinks it’s the time on the bank that I like,I’m not fishing against any one else or be a nuisance to anyone,I keeps myself to myself fish for my enjoyment
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You can’t help but marvel at some of the technology these boats have, cameras, echo sounders, even adaptions to spray the bait about like a spodded area.
I bought one of those cheap Actor ones a few years ago for dead baiting, just the basic version, this is after firmly being in the camp that it’s cheating. Used it a few times and caught because of it, it was quite fun at first using one, I must admit.
Although, the novelty factor soon wore off. I enjoy casting, that’s part and parcel of fishing for me and it’s so satisfying when you ping a lead under a willow, and you think to yourself, that’s got to be a fish. That and it takes years of practice to get semi decent at it.
I can definitely see why people use bait boats, as it simplifies everything, depths, clear spots even fish finding. We all go to catch, but where’s the graft in using these devices. Seems all a-bit soulless to me. I think the majority of bait boat users probably feel the same, but the advantages and time saving are too great for them not to use a boat. I personally would not choose to fish a venue that allows them. Just not for me.
Drones can disappear all together, they should have no place in pleasure fishing.
I couldn’t imagine anything worse than a few of those things flying about a lake. I find them such an invasion of privacy, especially that sound they make.
I know technology moves on, but surely we are losing the art of angling with these types of advances and there’s just something stale about it. Technology like this can stay at home, I want to go fishing to get away from that stuff.
Just my opinion of course.
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In reply to Post #20
I would of been a bit hacked off after a 3 day session using a bait boat and only catching a 13 pounder,is one of the reasons these people use them is to catch more than those casting.
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Better not mention my stealthcam wynch camera that sits beautifully in my brand new deeper baitboat that I use to place rigs with ultimate precision then? 😜
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Consumer underwater drones are only a few years away............
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In reply to Post #45
People are already using drones for shark fishing from the beach overseas. Bait boat lovers will just consider drones with cameras to drop their bait on the carps nose as the next step up in technology to catch fish at any cost.
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The bigger question is, how far do you allow technology to go?
The definition of “angling” is catching fish with a rod, line and a hook.
If bait boats are widely accepted, then what about drones?
What about dropping bait with a drone or a rig with a drone?
We live in an era where some people aren’t willing to put in any effort and want instant gratification. They will use anything just get a photo for social media.
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Well if Dave Lane says its cheating it must be official, even though most level headed folk have know this for years lol.
Bait boats offer a clear distinct advantage on some waters, fact. People are placing baits and creating spots that would not be possible under normal angling situations, add sonar, another advantage, add camera another advantage, all percentages and the later is boarding on robot carpin, end of.
Comes down to one thing for me, why do people use them, disability is a no brainer, otherwise its for an advantage or you like using electric boats. Said it before, i could treble my catch rate if i used one but i dont believe in them. Although i have been considering one for France to catch carp that come with a wiff of garlic.
As below, in the right hands i can see the benefits, in the hands of a mong, these are one of the reasons they get such a bad reputation. The problem is, you can’t to control the idiots, other than ban bait boats then its fair and a leveler for everyone. Which carp fishing should be for me, separates the boys from the men lol
A key point for me, when other anglers REALLY know the circumstances of a capture, it can take the edge of it when people are wanting merit, and the carp world usually lets people know lol, because they know in a lot of cases, without the boat they would have probably not caught said fish.
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In reply to Post #37
I have to agree.
I'm on a club lake at the moment full of plonkers with spod rods and a ban on boats. A lot of bites come at first light, you wait all night for it. More times than I can count, an idiot has rocked up at first light, thrashed it to a foam and send out 10kg in midi Spombs all over the place. Completely ruining my chances for a spot he might get bite off the following morning. Would I prefer they send a boat out, drop that whole bait load on one spot and disappear into their bivvy for a tommy tank? Absolutely....
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Well I wasn’t going to say anything on the subject but changed my mind
Boats are here to stay like it or not we have no choice on that one
I own a boat have owned about 4/5 nothing fancy just the usual suspects wave runners mainly
I hate them I enjoy casting where possible im not the biggest caster even had a lesson with mr Edmund this year to try and improve that got new rods to try and help
I agree it levels the playing field and then some makes a bad angler a better angler in some cases but also makes a bad angler worse
If a bad angler has no concept of fish safety and fishing etiquette it will make them a nightmare running over other people lines fishing in snags dumping 10kg of uncooked tigers 400 yrds out you all get the picture
But as said it helps the disabled anglers the angler who knows his water craft who can’t cast 200yrds or how ever many wraps that is the person who can afford a second hand shuttle or actor for £300 and fish with his budget rods and reels who couldn’t or doesn’t want to spend over 2k on rods and reels
I used mine in France this year quicker and easier to just drop 2 kg on my spot save smashing the spod rod every where all in 60/80yrds I could reach done 60plus fish in 6 days went through 50kg of bait that would have been some spodding
But don’t forget fish also spook of neat 1kg neat piles of bait the soon learn it’s a trap
But it’s a big no to drones for me give the fish a chance
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In reply to Post #39
Absolutely- the amount of carp we lose year on year to leads hitting then is ridiculous
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Not for me at all. Zero skill and gives an advantage over those who have spent years perfecting the cast and the skill of angling.
Would you think a drone would be good in golf or a remote control car to drop the ball on the green.
If you can’t get to the spot by casting then tough.
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I know I would prefer my bait boat bumping in to a fish than a 3oz lead hitting it
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Hands up i use a baitboat occasionally but awaiting surgery. So sharp swinging moves are a no no. The baitboat or should I say anglers are the problem and etiquette which is on life support is slowly dying.
My grudge or peave is against dinghies, motor boats or row boats out at range dropping bu kets of bait and rigs. If the angler is on his own how does he place his other rods without leaving the live rod unattended. Its alright if someone is watching the rods as in the YouTube video but an angler on his own?
Next peave is unattended rods on YouTube with the alarms screeching, spools churning and bobbins bouncing by named anglers. For what seems like ages. I thought the rules were no more than 9 metres from rods🤔
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Spend a couple of hours smashing the swim with a marker rod and spodding out. Or half hour stealthily finding a couple of spots with a boat and baiting up tightly to the spots?
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In reply to Post #34
Are you new o the internet?
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In reply to Post #34
Yeah, something like learning how to cast.
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These discussions are so utterly pointless and needlessly divisive. Worse is that the arguments against are often lacking in depth. It makes for painful, repetitive reading.
Where do we draw the imaginary line of what's "angling" and what's not? That's a personal opinion, not a fact, and the opinions I read who decide that line is the use of bait boats are so often devoid of serious critical thought. Stay away from debating clubs...
What's not an opinion is that it's a pleasure hobby and for the vast majority neither competitive or professional. So long as somebody's decisions (such as using a bait boat!) don't negatively impact upon me or break the rules then why should I care, or worse, feel so righteous that I strongly proclaim them to not be X, Y or Z as if I'm the absolute authority on such matters.
Put your time and efforts into something more fulfilling and productive.
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In reply to Post #32
Nature? So it's better for anglers to be casting into trees and leaving line everywhere for ducks and birds to get caught up in! Don't get that with a bait boat matey!!
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The EA should have done the right thing and banned Boats and Drones.
Terrible that they should have been allowed into fishing.
And what about Nature?
Reply to post #8
Had a quick scan through the thread - this one stood out.
Seriously.... what a completely stupid argument \ comparison.
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In reply to Post #30
Yes squire, My dilemma’s are quashed, and I’m gonna be a superb pilot. If Laney hasn’t got what it takes, then maybe he should just hold his hands up, and give us free YouTube vids like Terry and Scott.🤞🤞
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In reply to Post #28
Brilliant boat mate. You wont be disappointed. Done me well in France recently finding spots in a fairly weedy lake.
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Still tons of venues and clubs out there that don’t permit bait boats - fish those places if it’s a problem. Fairly simple solution really
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In reply to Post #27
Yeah I’ve got a Deeper Quest waiting for its maiden launch when my club lake reopens in September. I’ve used boats on the likes of Rainbow and baiting poles on intimate ponds, and it’s taken me a long time to personally accept the morals of a baitboat. Watching the likes of Terry Hearn and Scott Lloyd certainly qualmed any niggles though. If Laney doesn’t have the necessary skills to use them then that’s a chink in his armoury, nowt to do with me, Tel and Eggy Lid, noddy muppet 🤣🤣
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I have a bait boat and i use it as much as i can.
So there.
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I take my adult son to France fishing with me, it's the only time he fishes and he wouldn't call himself a fisherman.
I do his rigs and with a baitboat, he catches just as many as me as the skill element has largely gone.
Means he has a fun week so I don't mind.
Lakes have got harder over the last few years for sure and I do put that down to baitboats
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I’m not a fan at all. There is mitigation and I have used one on a very weedy year on a syndicate lake when everyone had them as any presentation was a s nightmare, I didn’t catch from its use and the only fish I caught that year were within 20 yards of the bank. Happily they are banned on all but one of the waters I fish now.
Forgetting disability they:
Allow you to fish a ranges not possible with natural ability
Allow you to place baits in places that would be impossible to cast to
They allow a stealth type approach that is impossible with lead and line
They are the brutal facts - even if you don’t use your boat for these purposes others do.
I used one to ‘keep up with the Jones’ and also on a holiday where getting out a quantity of bait at 120 yards seemed too much work on a holiday trip, but both these are excuses and personally for me devalue any captures - but each to their own.
The problem for me with this type of tech is that it is a massive shortcut to hard work (especially above in my crap spodding excuse). There is no doubt that they can make a poor angler a better one simply by ££s. Add a camera, echo and gps and suddenly a newbie can get amongst fish with any half sensible bait and rig. Most of us agree location is the no1 skill and a boat means there is nowhere for them to hide.
Bite alarms, bivvys, Bedchairs, sharpened hooks, and better baits make us fish more effectively but bait boats with all the bells and whistles or even without is purchasing a skill for me that isn’t learnt. Do I care? Not really, as I say they are banned on most the venues I fish, does it impact me? On occasions when you speak to someone who’s mate had a 40 and has this boat he paid £4k for and assumes you are birds of.a feather - but in general not overly bothered.
I love a bit of ingenious rule bending, or innovation to overcome certain problems - but personally they are not for me and I dislike their use - I pay more credence to fish caught without their use, and accept nobody gives a flying fig about that nor should they - fishing is a hobby. Cheating is probably too strong a word - unethical for me, but we all live by different ones
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Dare say we've all seen shocking antics with just rod & line, baiting poles etc it's the users that spoil it with very little thought to what they are doing.
I'm not a bait boat user but If they are allowed then so be it, if you don't like it then off you go.
Many things condition the fish.
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Time and a place for everything imo
Never forget Terry Hearn used one when needed, prime example is his time on Cranwells targeting The Parrot, if you ever fished there you’d realise why.
Scott Lloyd used one on Burghfield to catch the Common, taking advantage of a rule change.
Two of the finest anglers in the country I would say, but needs must.
I’ve personally seen both Tom Stokes and Darrel Peck use them when necessary, again…..
One of the reasons Laney hates them so much is that every time he’s ever tried to use one it’s either sunk or died on him, particularly in the middle of Burghfield again.
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On one hand.... its just one skill in the jigsaw of the many others needed to catch fish.
I don't necessarily think that bait boating, or boating in general, makes catching fish easy.
There's timing, location, swim choice, spot choice, presentation choice, bait choice, application of bait choice still to go...... not just the casting skill.
That said, if your casting skill is poor, it does remove that from the equation.... so certainly "easier" for many folk or removes developing that skill for newcomers if they go boat only.
Misuse of bait boats is a different matter and those misuers deserve the disrespect.
I guess its down to the many different reasons why people might go fishing. If the aquisition, development and refinement of skills like casting is the pinnacale and most important factor, i can see that boats are frustrating.
Technology wise - i think phones and social media/content generation and virtue signalling/success signalling/must catch is a bigger threat to fishing than bait boats...
I've said before..... my Dad used to say that bite alarms and using 3 - 4 rods would be the end of fishing and ruined the skill of bite detection and crowding the water with too many lines 😀
That said, no doubt that accurate and range casting is a real skill, and an integral part of fishing. I do think many venues should be casting only and really preserve that. Shame to hear that an iconic venue like Wraysbury is maybe taking a different approach with the boats.
Room for all sorts IMO. ❤️
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The only sport analogies can be.. if instead of using a racket, or a bat, or a club to hit the ball a robot took the ball and placed it exactly where you wanted it.
The issue is that in all those sports that would be seen as a ludicrous and totally illegal thing to do. In fishing it is different?
A rod is a tool for a job, a reel is a tool for a job, you still have to apply skill to use those tools. The bait boat does the job for you, that’s the difference.
Why do bait boaters never seem to want to just come out and say it.. I use a bait boat to catch fish because it makes it easy.
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I’m just back from a 3 day session and a 13.8 mirror saved the day,would I have blanked without my boat absolutely it allowed me to put the bait further to where they showing,do I think it’s cheating well no it’s just an extra item of tech in my fishing that’s helped me put more fish in the bank this year than I normally do
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In reply to Post #8
Your analogy doesn't hold up whatsoever.
Hitting a ball with a racket is still hitting a ball with a racket.
Driving a remote controlled boat to a spot is not casting.
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In reply to Post #5
My thoughts exactly on this subject. I've lost count of the videos I've watched where somebody rows a bloody great boat right across the lake, drops his rig and then chucks 10 or 15kg of (usually free) bait all over it - don't suppose that has any negative effects on anybody elses fishing?
You can probably tell I am a bait boat user where allowed and where appropriate, not got a problem with that, but then I am a responsible rule abiding angler. I maintain it is the most stealthy way to place rigs and bait up and I would sooner be on a lake with responsible bait boat users than watch blokes cast 5oz leads then stick 20 spombs of bait all over the job.
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61 yrs of age
Started aged 5,fifth generation coarse/sea angling heritage..
Lifetime of various aspects of angling ,junior schools match champion is one such aspect ..passionate about all countryside and angling issues...
Run my own fishery last 40 yrs..
Can't see me angling with any enthusiasm for much longer,apps ,bait boats ,drones..I pity the poor souls who try and justify there actions using overt tech,unless you are disabled in some way..especially the 'you have to move with the times or get left behind 'brigade...poor,poor Herbert's they be..!
You might as well stay at home,playing fishing on a screen,where by you are divorced,and desensitised from all of the wonderful nature and wildlife going on around you....
Just remember,you are deluding yourself that you can angle ,and have caught a big fish or PB,you have not ,all captures are pretty pointless and null and void..there is a cut off point,that point is drones ,and bait boats.....
I don't care who you are,where you fish,or what your phone pics show ,you are cheating ,it's simple as that ...
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Already have bait boats with fish finders, swim mapping, GPS and now people using drones to view the water for fish.
Whatever happened to watercraft, learning a venue over time, observing where the fish will be in certain conditions and seasons. Then escaping the rat race and modern world for peace and quiet alongside nature?
Next we will have GPS guided bait boats being sent to coordinates beamed to them from a hovering drone equipped with sonar and radar. With AI the “angler” will be able to sit back with his mates and not even look at the lake.
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If allowed I will use one if I take it with me
If I can’t I will cast it out .
If its ok for TH it’s ok for everyone…. 🤣🤣
A bait boat can get a disabled angler back out on the bank so maybe some rules should be relaxed and taken on a case by case basis.
Hopefully nothing happens to anyone on here which means they are not able to cast.
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In reply to Post #8
Poor comparison tbh, some serious ability is required to fish effectively at mega range with rods which is not the case with bait boats.
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Horses for courses.
Listened to a few podcasts recently where if you couldn't use a baitboat you would simply be camping for 48hrs...
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In reply to Post #8
Not quite.
I can see the similarities with advancements in tennis racquets and fishing rods/reels but what if the tennis player had gadgets that steered the ball, that wouldn't be allowed.
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In reply to Post #1
Is just dumping 3 or 4 lines out, setting the alarms, wandering 100 yards up the bank to someone’s social marquee (proper carp tho, ‘cos it’s in camo, innit!) with a remote receiver, for a burger and a beer, classed as real, skilled fishing?
And yet that seems not to upset most people (?).
But how would that be viewed by real skilled anglers from 30-40 years ago….🤔
Everyone has their view on what real skilled fishing is, and isn’t. What is acceptable tech, and isn’t. But which opinion is the valid one?
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I have one. Really don't like it, but when you've paid best part of a grand for a weeks fishing in France it's stupid to not have one when everyone else does?
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I suppose those that use a SatNav to get to the lake aren’t proper drivers because they didn’t use a 1980’s A-Z
I use a boat where permitted but most of my fishing is done on a club water that doesn’t allow them. At the end of the day it’s a tool in my box and if I can use it, I will.
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Likewise I am probably going to make myself very unpopular but baitboats are simply a advancement in our sport. They are another tool to out armoury. It is the same with any sport. Look at tennis players for example. Carbon fibre rackets have meant players are now hitting the ball at 140mph - are we saying they should have stuck with wooden rackets because it's unfair? Those who moan about baitboats seem to have no issues using the latest carbon fibre super rods and casting 180 yards. What's the difference - it's just a technological advancement in fishing the same as a baitboat is - maybe everybody should remain stuck in the 60s with split cane rods and a maximum casting range of 50 yards! Everybody has the option to go and buy a baitboat - they are available for everybody to buy and nobody is missing out. It's just that some people choose against it for whatever reason and then moan they are an unfair advantage or it's not angling. Time to recognise that love them or hate them this is the new era of fishing - nothing stays the same for ever and you either move with the times or get left behind to do it your way.
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I have a bait boat and the lakes I fish there’s not many proper carp anglers on them and if I have my own area to fish too like the far bank as that’s unfishable then I use it but I only use it when I need to but it’s opened my eyes about where the fish can be,some of the lads have got drones to find the fish but I’d rather use the boat,if no one else is fishing or no one minds does it really matter as long as I’m not interfering with anyone else’s angling and staying in my space I’m happy,I don’t go to cause drama on the lakes and like to do my own thing and I never disturb anyone else’s fishing.
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I agree bait boats are a nightmare. I think the issue is bait boats allow the unskilled the ability to fish areas they wouldn't be able to. Whilst some are very skilled using boats the reality is from my experience is just having boats driving all over the place, idiots thinking that because they can drive a boat to a spot they can fish it regardless to the fact it is not their water and I dropping their rigs on top of mine.
I don't use a boat like DL but in his defense it does look like that like long range casting or stalking it is a genuine skill need to learn and practice for it to be effective.
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In reply to Post #1
I’ll probably get shot down for this but here goes.
DL is happy to jump in a boat and motor across a lake and hand drop a rig on a spot he can see but thinks that’s “fishing” as do others but moans at about someone using a BB?
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In reply to Post #1
But, on the plus side, they can force fish into the reaches of anglers who don't use them.
Imagine being on a lake with everyone right left and centre using spombs at night with lights on...makes bait boats saintly!
And that's it, I'm not entertaining another slagging match about bait boats..fgs
Fill your boots 👍
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Luckily they are banned everywhere i fish now and i think will remain so.
Only encountered them on a large open lake Rockford, could not believe it saw them passing my point swim late at night and dropping baits over 200 yards from their swim. So lines cutting straight over the top of my left hand and middle rods!
That was the last season i fished there that and the nearly arrived crowds occupying every swim drove me off.
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Agreed, joined a syndi last year, 75 acres, between me and my son we had 2 takes all year, not using a bait boat. Virtually everyone had them, some fishing at 200yds. Needless to say, I haven't rejoined.
However, have joined another local-ish club that allows them. First day out, witnessed a BB going out towards the opposite bank and dropping it's load. It was 40 yards wide with nothing on the far bank except grass!! Could have even cast the rod onto the grass, walked around and dropped it in. A complete moron!!
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Bait boats are destroying angling.. Well said Dave Lane and totally agree. His point on bait boaters ruining lakes for everyone else due to changing the fish behaviour was spot on.
They’ve allowed the poxy things on Walthamstow now, awful decision and completely unnecessary.
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